Since someone said I've been hitting readers over the head with my beliefs, I wanted to give examples of what it really means to hit someone over the head with beliefs. In Kansas, they want to teach a religious belief as if it were a credible alternative to the foundation of modern biology. In Texas, they want to exclude Gays and Bisexuals from being foster parents. In Waynesville, North Carolina, nine members of the East Waynesville Baptist Church had their membership revoked because they are Democrats.
I just write what I think and encourage everyone else to do the same. I think it does all of us good to see the humanity of the people arguing from the other side. Too often the media highlight the differences and shield the humanity that binds us. This dehumanization makes it easy to discriminate against those who are different. It makes it easier to turn hate on other humans. It makes it easier to turn weapons on other humans.
This site is here for all to participate. All points of view will be considered and argued here. However, no one should be criticized for expressing their opinions here.
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**UPDATED** Changed to reflect the correct state for Waynesville.
12 comments:
Since I'm the one who started the fracas with my one-line comment, I should be the first to respond here. There was no malicious intent with my comment...for years I have given you grief about being politically vocal. I'm all for good debate and you certainly do the research to debate your opinions. You are the master debater...
Now, on to the fun...let's see if I can keep it brief...
All three of the stories that you posted are bizarre (especially the Baptist Church kicking out members), but all three are wrapped around foundational Biblical beliefs. In today's society, both religious and political topics are so deeply woven into American culture that they can't be kept separate. Yes, the "Religious Right" has gotten louder over the past few decades. But when one of your kids does something that you feel is wrong and doesn't listen when you tell them what they did wrong, don't you say it again a little louder. Same concept...the Religious Right has gotten louder becuase the American culture is migrating toward acceptance of things that go DIRECTLY against the beliefs (e.g. homosexuality). Are they wrong for their beliefs? That is up to each person to decide. Are they wrong on their approach? That too is up to each person. But they must be looked at separately and that is where the media gets in the way.
I won't sit on the fence. I personally agree with teaching the creation theory as an alternative. I'll borrow your own words..."I think it does all of us good to see the humanity of the people arguing from the other side." MD and Lou, correct me if I'm wrong with this next statement...there are scientific laws (e.g. gravity) and theories (e.g. Big Bang). Not many people argue with the laws because there is no viable alternative. Theories, however, are different. Becuase of that, both should be available to be discussed openly, even in the classroom.
And I'm also in favor of excluding homosexuals from being foster parents (BTW, there is no conceivable way that the State of Texas will be able to administer that policy, if passed). Women and African-Americans were historically discriminated against, but neither group had any choice in their gender or race. I'm sorry, but I don't accept the statement that homosexuality is predisposed, just like gender and race. That is a choice and one that this narrow little mind will not accept.
Alright, I just painted a bullseye on some of my central beliefs...fire at will.
I read the blog everyday, sometimes several times a day. Lou and I discuss between the two of us what is posted and commented here. I usually don't comment but this time I feel compelled. When I read the "hit over the head" comment I was quite frustrated. I try to understand the other point of view in everything that happens in my life. Try as I may I did not get this one. There was talk about the freedoms we enjoy as Americans and as people as well as disagreements with what is happening in our government and in the world, political and personal feelings and beliefs. Isn't this what being an American is? I have only recently (within the last year or two) started to pay attention to politics and the things that go on in that arena. I have to admit it is mostly because I am married to a teacher who is affected by NCLB, and because of being personally affected by the war(friends and family that are brave servicemen). I have found that I don't fully agree with either side. Just like on this blog I have found I don't fully agree with all of the opinions here. However, back to my point, it is someones opinion and that is a right that we enjoy. Although I do not always agree with what Seamhead has to say, he has the right to say it. It is who he is. Lou and I don't agree on some pretty big political issues, but he has his opionion and the right to have it, as do I. It is who we are as people. So I say "YOU GO" Seamhead, DLS, Howdy, MD, and whoever else has an opinion. It is awesome when you can just be who you are whether anyone else agrees with your opinions or not.
Misti
The Theory of Evolution is not 'just a theory' as some say. It is a theory that has been put to the test over and over. It is more like a theory in the vein of the Theory of Relativity. It's basically the basis for modern biology.
And if you're going to teach the creation story how do you decide which one? My friend Andy has pointed out to me that there are two different creation stories in the book of Genesis.
The bible is filled with contradictions. If you tried to follow it as written you would shortly be insane, but at least you would know when it's ok to impregnate your female slave.
I believe the bible is a wonderful adventure. It's also a wonderful guide to living a compassionate life. It's important to read and understand. But I don't believe it to be inerrant.
Shelly and I attended a class about gays and lesbians at our church (it was taught by Andy and another good friend of ours, Alan. Strangely enough, we have a lot of friends who are pastors.). It was quite interesing. There are basically a half-dozen or so verses that are used to condemn homosexuality. If you look at these verses in the context in which they were written they really don't relate to homosexuality as we know it. There was no concept of a homosexual or homosexual lifestyle in biblical times. To me it doesn't matter whether homosexuality is a choice or genetics (there is some credible evidence of this by the way.). I don't believe it is a sin.
It amazes me how the right wing has become fixated on homosexuality and abortion to the detriment of preaching about social justice and peace when there are literally thousands of passages in the bible exhorting us to spread social justice and peace. This really frustrates me with the Southern Baptist denomination in which I grew up. Until the 1980s the Souther Baptists were great champions of social justice and peace. Now, that great tradition is in tatters.
By the way, it's great to have Dave telling us thoughts here. And it's great to see Misti come out and post. This is what it's all about.
all that other stuff is what I believe. This is what I know to be Solid Truth. I am going to punish Lou on the golf course the next time he dares to face me.
Oh and one last thing. I don't think of this space as debate. I think of it as a say, a virtual bar. A place we gather to talk as if we were all sitting at the bar buying each other cold ones. There's no winning or losing. It's just us doing what we always did when we were together. Although the topics have gone beyond sex and sports. Hehe. And there is no debating that I'm gonna pound Lou on the golf course.
Who would choose to be a homosexual? I don't get it. Why would someone decide to live a "lifestyle" that too many people perceive as a one-way ticket to the burning inferno of the afterlife? And who am I to judge? My house best not be built of glass because it would be shattered before the foundation was lain.
I don't get it. I really don't. Do people who use their energies on worrying about the salvation of homosexuals sit and think that all "those people" do is have orgies and walk around naked in front of small children in the hopes that the child will too, in turn, CHOOSE to be homosexual? Can't we use the passion found in the persecution of homosexuals better to raise homelessness awareness and stop the slaughter in the Sudan?
A teacher at our high school and her life partner are foster parents. They have adopted two boys and one girl so far. They are now also caring for a baby - about 15 months old, and his 3 year old brother - both for the past 15 months (since the baby was 3 days old and ridding his system of drugs). When a friend asked me if I had some baby items I wasn't using because they had gotten the children the night before with no warning, I didn't think, "Oh, man, not those lesbians at it again. Those kids don't have a chance!" I thought, "I could never be so selfless to do that! There must be a special place in Heaven for those ladies, that FAMILY." It was a lot easier for our family to give them our baby swing than taking in a drug addicted baby.
I am a judgemental person. It is my biggest downfall. But I like to think that if I do judge, it is on how one treats another, not on some aspect of lifestyle that a person has instructed me to believe as sinful. I am quite uncomfortable with that. Jesus hung with the prostitues, the lepers, those that others judged to be hell-bound on the societal values placed on idividuals of that time. Sound familiar? I think Jesus would be right at home at a barbecue with my sinner friends and me. Who am I to judge? I am just a sinner.
Damn, Seamhead. I guess you hit a nerve with that one.
You want to know what I think? I think that there is a time when it is okay to hit people over the head with your beliefs (metaphorically speaking, of course). Namely, when they are hitting others over the head with their own beliefs. DLS hits people who are homosexual over the head with his belief, so Seamhead hits DLS over the head with his. The difference is DLS is hitting first, and Seamhead is hitting back. (Metaphorically speaking, of course.)
Like Shelly said, we judge all the time, just like Jesus did. We judge people based on how they treat others. Jesus hit people over the head with his beliefs ALL THE TIME. In fact, that's what pissed off the Pharisees so much that they killed him for it.
So swing away, Seamhead.
(Metaphorically speaking, of course.)
Hier stehe ich!
Andy B.
Most of you probably don't know this, but I was put into foster care five times before I was eight years old. I lived with four different foster families during this time. In the fourth grade I was sent back to live with my birth mother, after she was able to convince the state that she had fixed all her problems, and was able to be a parent again.
They didn't put me in the same foster home as my brother(who was one year old at the time), because they were able to place him quicker with a family that wanted to do the whole raise a child from a baby thing. At the time it was pretty hard on me emotionaly being dragged from home to home until I finally landed in with a Morman family that I lived with for four years. I'm greatfull now that they were there for me instead of having to live with my mother and one of her bad relationship choices.
A couple of years ago, I decided to go back and thank that last family for taking me in and giving a shit. When I got to the house that they had lived in, I found out that they had moved about six years before. One thing that I did notice though, was how much smaller the house was than I had remembered. It was a tiny, three bedroom, one level house with no garage. When I lived with them they had two kids of there own, and three other foster kids besides me. Thats the Brady Bunch with a house a fourth the size. I guess thats what you get when you don't have enough people who want to be foster parents - everyone shoved into the same home whether there is enough room or not.
I have a close friend who is a social worker in Kansas City, and she gave me a few numbers that I'd like to share with you. A foster parent of a normal child in Kansas City is payed $227 per month. The childs insurance is paid, and they get a clothing allowance that is a maximum, depending on the childs age,of $250 per year. Thats all a foster parent gets, unless they choose to foster a disabled or special needs child, and I think we can all agree that whatever that heroic person gets paid isn't enough.
It takes a very special, loving person to take in and care for someone elses child, and there aren't that many people who do it.
If you say that you don't believe that someone should be a foster parent for no other reason than the fact that that person is attracted to someone of the same sex, then I say maybe your not actually thinking about the child.
If you want to keep a gay couple from having a foster child, then you better be willing to take in two of them your self to make up for that one kid you would let those gay guys help.
Damn gay guys wanting to help kids- whats the world coming to?
Its Waynesville, NC, not Waynesville, GA.
A Pulp Fiction analogy. That is hilarious.
Paul, I am just blown away by the kindness shown by some people. It always seems like the truest and most honest kindness comes from those in situations where they stand to gain nothing through their deeds. It's pretty easy to be kind when you're receiving recognition, acolades, money, etc. I'm pretty thankful that there are folks like that.
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